tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News December 5, 2011 2:00am-3:00am EST
captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. herman cain suspends his presidential campaign. now, a former frontrunner looks to win over some of his supporters in iowa. she says barack obama will be a one term president. but is she the one to beat him? we continue our 2012 one on one interviews with congress woman michele bachmann. then, congress deadlocked again. if legislators can't break the impass over extending a popular tax cut will taxpayers be left holding the bag? we'll get answers from two top senators. democrat kent conrad and republican tom coburn. also, newt gingrich is the new gop frontrunner. what does herman cain dropping out mean for his chances? we will ask our sunday panel where the republican campaign stands now less than a month
before we hear from the voters. and our power player of the week reimagines how to choose a president. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. the republican presidential field was shaken up again saturday when herman cain announced after weeks of allegations about his personal life he is uss august suspendi. >> as of today with a lot of prayer and soul searching i am suspending my press presidential campaign. >> now, less than a month before voters in iowa make their choice, here is the latest poll from the des moines register. newt gingrich has moved to the front of the field with 25%. ron paul is next at 18. mitt romney at 16. followed by michele bachmann who is tied for fourth with
cain at 8. but things can still change. 11% said they are uncommitted. while 60% are willing to change their mind. joining us now to discuss the race is congress woman bachmann who is in new york. and welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> chris, good to talk with you, thank you. >> chris: your reaction to herman cain dropping out of the race? did he do the right thing? >> well, that was his decision. i do know this, he brought so much energy and goodwill to the race. he has a marvelous personality and everyone enjoys himnd and he is an intriguing candidate and good candidate. the race is better for having herman in the race and i enjoyed talking to him all throughout the race. >> chris: some of the polling shows with cain out newt gingrich picks up more of his support than any of your oh candidates. first of all, do you believe that and secondly how do you reach out to cain supporters and try to get them to support
you? >> beginning yesterday our office had call after call after call of people who wanted to switch over and come and support me because people realize i'm the true tea party candidate in the race. i started the tea party caucus in washington and i brought 40,000 people to washington, d.c. to fight against obama care. people recognize i'm the real deal. i'm authentic and genuine and i think we will pick up a lot of the support from across the country. people who formerly supported herman cain. >> chris: congress woman, you have spent more than 60 days in iowa this year and held more than 120 events and yet as we just showed in the latest des moines register poll you are tied in fourth place at 8%. is the problem. >> we are about 30 days to the all important, iowa caucuses. this is light a political wall street, the candidates have gone up and down. people are looking for the true consist independent conservative in this race.
and they are getting surprises. we launched a website called no surprises 2012 .com and on the website people see of all of the candidates in the race i am the true consistent conservative and as the layers are being peeled back and the candidates examined, people is see in me someone who opposed the $700 billion wall street bailout. that is not true of mitt romney or newt gingrich. i opposed obama care. that is not true of mitt romney and newt gingrich. and a also on climate change, both of them were in support of efforts regarding climate change. i opposed it. so as the candidates are looking at who is the true conservative, and who is going to fight for them and who is going to stand on the stage and debate barack obama and shred h his radical policies during the course of a debate, i'm the only one who can do it because i'm the only candidate who is not compromised. >> chris: well, you make a convincing argument but people in iowa aren't convinced.
evangelicals and other social conservatives have been talking for months about trying to get together and endorse a single candidate because they he understand if they split their vote among several of you they are not going to have as big a voice. so far they cannot come up with a single endorsement. how important is it do you think for the values voters in iowa to stand united? >> i think that again january 3 will be the day that tells us what the result will be. there was polling down in iowa showing that voters don't even necessarily look at endorsements, they look at the candidate. ultimately that is what they want to know. they want someone who will beat barack obama. i have the opportunity to build a beat barack obama because of all of the candidates in the race i'm the one that will hold him accountable for his principles and his pollties. i have done that for the last five years and i will do that as a nominee of the republican
party. >> chris: all right, you have talked a little bit about mitt romney and newt gingrich. i want to follow up because you and newt gingrich have been going at each other a little bit in the last week after you accused him of supporting amnesty for illegals. he fired back at you. let's watch. >> as a teacher a student who couldn't figure out where things were or what they were or what the right date was, when that happens you feel sorry that they are so fax factually challenge. >> you feel sorry for someone to is so factually challenge. >> chris: what do you think of him comparing he is the wise teacher and you are the student who needs some help. >> well, professors don't like to be challenged but i think in this case he is memory challenged. newt gingrich sign adler in the letter in the "wall street journal" where he was in full
support of amnesty that makes 11 million illegal workers legal overnight and he was in suspects you port of the federal dream act which is federal taxpayer subsidies for the children of illegal aliens for their college tuition. this is not where the american people are at. i have opposed these measures and there is a clear line of distinction when it many coulds to immigration. newt gingrich has the lowest grade of a d minus on immigration. i have the highest grade of any one in the field. i will build the fence. i will secure the border and i will make english the official language of the united states government. >> chris: you have also accused speaker gingrich of peddling his influence here in washington with relationships to healthcare companies and especially to freddie mac. he says he has never lobbied for any one here in washington and that in fact because of his experience he is the one who can shake up the way washington does business. >> well, it is implausible,
chris, because he has been a part of washington, d.c. for over 30 years. he is as establishment as you get. hissed a dress is located on the rodeo drive of washington which is k street. his organizations have taken in over $100 million just this year alone to peddle influence. lobbyist have to be a lobby within the letter of the law in order to influence the outcome of legislation. these special interests aren't paying him $100 million for nothing. they are paying him over $100 million because he is influencing legislation in washington, d.c. that is not what we want to see in the white house. we want someone who is actually going to fight, washington, not someone who has been paid oh he serri $100 million in one year alone to influence it. >> you say influence legislation. how has he done that? >> well, he has taken money from a special interest and organizations to put forward ideas that they agree with before members of congress
whether he has come in to meetings of republicans or whether he has worked together with republicans and democrats to bring forth their special interests. there is a strict teff knicks of lobbying and then there is also the issue influence peddling and that is clearly what speaker gingrich has done. >> you oppose extending the payroll tax cut for another year which means that middle class families if that payroll tax cut lapses at the end of 2011 would pay some where between a thousand dollars and $1,500 a year more in taxes. question, by opposing the extension of the payroll tax cut, aren't you breaking the republican pledge not to raise taxes? >> not at all. i opposed it last december and i urged my republican colleagues not to go forward with it. this is barack obama's idea. he said that we would create millions of jobs if we lower the payroll tax. that is not true. it didn't happen and his administration admits that it
didn't work. why would you continue a policy that doesn't work? plus the other fact that people need to know this blew a hole of $111 million in the social security trust fund. senior citizens need to have their social security checks. this pulled out $111 billion out of social security and that is something that a i'm unwilling to do. the social security trust fund when they run out of money they have to go to the general fund to get the money to pay for the social security checks. well, we are broke. there is no money in the general trust fund and we have to go and pore row more money from china. this is a failed policy. it doesn't work and i won't vote to continue it. >> but what democrats would say and in fact are saying is here is someone like you who is against extending the payroll tax cut which helps the middle class and the working class but you favor extending the bush tax cuts especially for the
wealthy. >> well, in the deal that was struck last year there was an effort to establish the tax table so that businesses would know how much to withhold. i voted against the bill last year which was the payroll tax deduction when you talk about extending the current reduced tax rates on the people who are job providers that only makes sense in a down economy. we want to create jobs. that helps to create jobs to keep more money in the pockets of the job creators. when you pull more money out of the pockets of the job creators you are going to have less jobs. what do we need in the united states right now? more jobs. millions of jobs. high paying jobs. president obama hasn't delivered the. the only way to do that, chris, is to make sure that businesses have all of the money that they need to be able to create jobs. right now they don't and if the tax increases go into effect that president obama wants to have, not going to help any one.
>> chris: congress woman, you held a town hall meeting in iowa this past week and ended up talking so some iowa high school students about same-sex marriage. we want to play the exchange. >> there shouldn't be any special rights. or special set of criteria. based on people's preferences. we all have the same civil rights. they can get married. they abide by the same law as everyone else. they can marry a man this if he are a woman or marry a woman if they are a man. >> chris: congresswoman, same sex marriage is legal in iowa. is that all right? >> no, it has been between a man and a woman. it hasn't been the same-sex marriage. and remember in iowa it was judges that made the decision, not the legislature which are
the people's representatives and certainly not the people. that is why the people are iowa threw out three of those supreme court judges. that is something that should give pause to all judges. the people in iowa are sick and tired of having judges tell them what their laws are. they are not a super legislature. they are judges and need to act like judges. as president of the united states i will only appoint judges that will apply the strict construction or original intent of the constitution of the united states. >> chris: finally, congresswoman, we have less than a minute left. as we said you have invested h heavily in time and money in iowa. if on january 3 you don't finish first or a strong close second how can you go on? >> well, we will talk about that after january 3. but we fully intend to win in iowa. you know, chris, no one thought i was going to win the straw poll in iowa this summer and i did. no one thought i would win my tough races in the state of minnesota where i'm the first
republican woman ever to get elected in that state to go to congress. but i did. and i think what people will find is that in this case, too, the underdog has a very good chance of winning and we are working hard because i am the only consistent core conservative in this race and ultimately i think people are going to come back home on january 3 and i think i will get their vote and go on to new hampshire and on to south carolina and florida and ultimately be the republican nominee who defeats barack obama because i fully intend to repeal obama care, repeal dodd frank, abolish the tax code and turn the country around. i know how to do it. >> chris: we have to leave it there. we will be along for the ride in any case. thank as for talking to us. you in addition to run having a new book out called core of conviction my story. congresswoman, safe travels on the campaign trail. >> thank you, chris.
>> chris: congress is dead locked over extending the payroll tax cut for another another year. with the senate voting down both republican and democratic plans this week, will middle class families face a thousand dollars tax increase in 2012? joining us now two senate leaders on fiscal issues. democratic senator kent conrad, chairman of the budget committee and republican senator tom coburn who joins us from his home in muskogee oklahoma. senator coburn you voted
against extending the payroll tax cut this week. a lot have problems with it. they say it doesn't stimulate the economy. they say you are paying for a one year tax break with ten years of spending cuts and weakens the social security trust fund. question, is the gop prepared to let the payroll tax cut lapse which means a tax increase for middle class workers at the beginning of the year? >> i don't think i can speak for all of the gops. the principles that you would in fact create a tax cut and then say you are going to pay for it over ten years is exactly why we are bankrupt as a nation. and we are. people don't necessarily see that but we are. so whether or not we continue a reduction in the amount of taxes that come to social security is one thing. paying for it, we have so much waste in washington to take ten
years to pay for it is ridiculous. >> chris: let me follow up for a second. a good policy or not, haven't democrats turned the table on you? i mean here is a situation where you would be perceived if you let it lapse that they are proposing a tax cut for the middle class and republicans are opposing it. >> i don't think so. i'm all for changing the tax code. i have demonstrated that the game, the political gotcha game they are playing on this. one example. both votes on thursday didn't matter at all because no tax item like this can start in the senate. it was pure politics. it was all for playing a game. america is tired of that. they want real solutions to the real problems they have and all we were doing is playing a charade and america saw right through it. >> chris: let me pick up with senator conrad. is spending $120 billion in the
next year to give a payroll tax cut continue a payroll tax cut for middle class workerers is that good fiscal policy or really good politics. you can say we support a tax cut for the middle class while they support a tax cut for the wealthy. >> i think we back up and think of what the country needs. what the country needs right now is additional lift for the economy. one in every six americans is either unemployed or underemployed. when you ask the nonpartisan congressional budget office which i did what is the biggest bang for the buck and extending judge employment insurance is number one and high on the list is a payroll tax cut. it is good economic policy to do. most economists have said if you don't extend the payroll tax cut you will reduce economic growth and reduce jobs in this country by $1 million. so it would be a very bad
mistake to let the payroll tax lapse. and the democratic proposal is paid for. paid for in a deficits i diffey than what senator coburn was discussing, paid for by a surtax on those earning over a million dollars a year. >> chris: that is not going to pass. i mean that is a political stunt. >> look, it is a serious proposal and it is. >> chris: but a serious proposal. i'm not saying it is wrong but a serious proposal with no chance of passing. >> look, it got 51 votes in the united states senate. normally this is a country where majority rules. only in the united states senate does it take 60 votes. we underand it it is going to take a change. majority leader reid called me yesterday and said he will propose tomorrow a compromise plan to extend the payroll tax cut. you know, to me. >> chris: and how do you pay for it, what is the compromise? >> he will offer it at that point. i don't think it is probably in
my purview to announce his plan. he indicated to me it will be paid for in a serious way. >> chris: tax increase or with spending cuts? >> again, i think it is up to him to define his plan, discuss his plan. but it will be paid for. it will be paid for in a way that is credible and serious. it will represent a compromise from what was voted on last week. and that it is a serious attempt to move this ball forward because we should not have a tax increase on the middle class. that just makes no sense in this economy. >> chris: senator coburn, will the payroll tax cut be extended and what about unemployment benefits? will they be extended for the 10th time at a cost of $50 billion? >> well, they -- probably they both will be extended. the question the american people ought to ask is where is the backbone in washington to actually pay for the extensions in the year in which the money is spent. in all we see coming out of
washington is promise about the future collecting revenues to pay for expenditures today. we are in very serious trouble. we continue to kick the can down the road. we lack the backbone and courage in washington to make the hard choices now. nobody is making hard choices now. what they are doing is promising the benefit and no paying now. it always comes later. when we start actually making difficult choices and really taking care of people like unemployment should be shortened some what but we have to include it and probably the payroll tax cut, we ought to pay for that by decreasing spending now and other low he priority areas. >> let me ask you about another issue and a choice, a hard choice you can make right now, senator coburn. the government runs out of money on december 16. as part of the debt deal last summer, republicans and democrats agreed to spending totals but now some republicans particularly in the house are
saying you know what, the spending totals are too low. are you willing to say let's cut spending now and not go with the spending totals and therefore let's risk another government shutdown? lie comingthe big lycoming out out of washington which quite frankly the press has helped to present to the american people is that we cut spending. we didn't cut a penny. the budget control act will increase spending over what we are doing today $830 billion. to me ho not many people understand that. and even what you do even with the sequestration we still is increased spending. we are playing games like the guy at the fair with the pea under the wail nut, we are playing a game with the american people. nobody has cut anything yet in washington. >> chris: is there the possibility we are going to get a government shutdown?
>> i don't think so. that would be aiming mistake. where tom is right is we have the debt threat looming over the country and it is absolutely imperative for the nation's fiscal security and national security are that we find a way to come together in a bipartisan basis on a comprehensive plan. senator coburn and i were part of of the fiscal commission and part of the group of six. >> a lot of people foe that as the bowles simpson commission. >> exactly right. >> right. >> we did find a way to come together. republicans and democrats to propose $4 trillion of debt reduction and it is critically important that we find a way to get that discipline in place going forward. >> all right, let's review. let's put up on the screen what bowles simpson called for because you actually anticipated where i was going to take. this conversation called for cutting deficits over ten years. ehe limeliminating tax deducti. is using the tax expenditure to
reduce the debt. raise the retirement age and reduce benefits for social security and reform medicare. question, i will start with you, senator conrad, is there any chance, any chance, i mean realistically that bowles simpson gets revived and passed in the next year of congress? >> i believe there is and i believe it is critically important that it does. look, all we have to do that. >> chris: how are you going to do that if the super committee couldn't come up with $1 trillion. >> we on the bowles simpson, 11 of 18. five democrats, five republicans, one independent. we agreed to this plan. that is 60%. even in washington 60% should pass a plan. we had a super majority requirement on the bowles simpson commission. we have sioux members of the house and senate who have joined together to say let's move forward with bowles simpsonlike approach. and we have the opportunity to do something critically
important for this country. let's do it. >> chris: senator coburn? >> i think it is entirely possible we could do it. the question is, what the american people ought to be asking is why would we not given the fact that what is in front of uss augusta cat trophic in terms -- in front of us is catastrophic. i think we can. i would tell you i think some of the super committee was designed to fail from the start simply because it was so polarized by the leadership on both sides. i think we have a good basis with which to come together. reforming the tax code. generating additional revenues. modifying the long-term problems associated with social security, medicare and medicaid. i think we can do it. the important thing is we better do it. >> chris: let me, senator coburn, switch topics. i want to ask you about one last political issue. you served with newt gingrich in the house and you say that he was brilliant but earlier this year you were asked about whether or not he could be a
good president and you raised questions about that. let's watch. >> well, we need somebody whose eye is critical but is not harsh in their manner and i don't mean to say he is necessarily harsh. but i'm looking for a leader that can bring us together. >> chris: as speaker gingrich takes the lead in the republican race, do you still have those questions about his fitness to be president? >> chris, there is a lot of candidates out there. i'm not inclined to be a supporter of newt gingrich, having served under him for four years and experienced personally his leadership. >> chris: why is that? >> because i found it lacking often times. >> chris: and i don't want to pull teeth but if you could just explain why? i think it is an important thing. people want to know what you
think. >> well, the thing is there is all types of leaders. instillthat in stinky fish confidence. leaders that have one standard for the people that they are leading and a different standard for themselves. i found his leadership lacking and i will not go into greater detail on that. if you were to poll the group of people that came into congress in 1994, and which he did a wonderful job in organizing that, he is brilliant, he has lots of positives. but i still -- it would be my -- i will have difficulty supporting him as president of the united states. >> chris: we have to leave it there, senator coburn, senator conrad we want to thank you both for coming in today and talking with us and we will stay on top of the debt story which isn't going away. thanks, gentlemen. >> you bet. >> chris: coming up, the sunday panel on herman cain dropping out of the presidential campaign. where does that leave the race now? p@?ñm ñoy÷h>óñc>ó
i am at peace with my god. i am at peace with my wife. and she is at peace with me. >> well, that was herman cain saturday in his own unique way dropping out of the gop presidential campaign. and it is time for our sunday group. byron york of the washington examiner. mara liasson from national public radio. ed gillespie and kirsten powers, col upist for th the dy beast website. ed, you were also the former chairman of the national republican party. what is your best guess, where does the cain support go? >> well, i think that newt gingrich is probably the likely beneficiary and we are seeing that. i think we have been seeing it for at least a week now, maybe a little more. but i would not be surprised to
see a santorum boomlet as well. i sense from some of my conservative friends and i was listening to mark levin's radio show on friday and he was talking about rick santorum and michele bachmann. i don't discount the possibility that you see a little bump for rick santorum especially in iowa. >> chris: i was going to say and those of us who cover it know that iowa has 99 counties 99 santorum has been in all of them. that is an accomplishment right there. byron, you been on the campaign trail following a lot of these folks. what is your sense of what cain's decline and now dropping out does to the race? >> i think for the moment it is already, the support has already gone to gin rich. i wagingrich. i was in south carolina and actually had the first sense that i had ought travel that romney could lose. >> chris: lose in iowa or lose period? >> the whole thing. the support for are newt
gingrich in south carolina is strong and this momentum that you see for gingrich in iowa is really very strong. ed is right, there are social conservatives who are trying to unite behind a candidate they desperately don't want to support, mitt romney. they are looking for a candidate to get behind. some of them can't get past newt gingrich's three marriages or washington insiderdom. they are looking for somebody else and trying santorum but worried about the fact that he can't seem to get above 2, 3, 4% in the polls. >> chris: newt gingrich was the new frontrunner in the race and mitt romney the new you underdog. they both warmed to their new roles. >> i want to be the nominee. it is hard not to look at the recent polls and think the odds are not very high i will be the nominee. >> there is this funny thing in america called the election. to win the election you got to
earn it. >> chris: a little early for newt gingrich to be declaring victory. >> and there we have the seeds of why people think he will not be the nominee pause he has a pension for grandosity. when mit says he has to earn it. he has gotten a pass pretty much until now. now, he will be challenged i think by gingrich. and he was knocking door to door in new hampshire saying am going to earn it, i don't think this will be given to me on a silver platter. i think he has to fight for it and we have to she a real gingrich/romney showdown if this thing is going to be resolve and i think there are signs of gingrich doing the thing that none of the other antiromneys could do which is maybe starting to consolidate the conservative anticom antiry
candidate. >> chris: what do you think are gingrich's biggest obstacles. >> if you look that he could become the nominee you could see a path where that could happen. then the question is, the laws of nature of fixed and the laws of nature with newt gingrich is that implodes. the question is does implode before he gets the nomination or after he gets the nomination. i'm not saying he will get the nomination. he is in a position to get it. take florida for example. he is up 25 points in florida. the matchup the h head to head with obama romney does quite a bit better. obama is leading by only one point where he is leading gingrich by six points. maybe consolidate the conservatives and bring them around him. in a general election i think it will scare off moderates and independents. >> before we get to the general election. let's talk about the nominations as they haven't even had the first vote for
that. ed, i have to say i was struck by senator coburn. in doing the research i saw that on c span back in march he had spoken some what critically and not in a volunteering, kind of as you saw here being dragged out of him critical comments about newt gingrich. i was impressed that he said it again today. >> i was struck by it. and he spoke specifically about newt gingrich's leadership and his style. one of the things you will see the next few weeks and months is voters looking at newt gingrich and wondering will he have the discipline to be the potential nominee. at the same time, they will be looking at mitt romney and like mara said, does he have the fire. will he be tough enough to fight for the domination. we wily over the next couple months he needs to be more like mitt romney and mitt romney needs to be more like newt gingrich if they going to win
the nomination. >> chris: let me switch to mitt romney. he did an interview this week with my col leak bret baier. he asked him about the list of perceived flip flops. as you can see, governor romney got a little testy. let's watch. >> bret, your list is not accurate. one we have to be better informed about my views on issues. romney's performance got a lot of buzz this week. >> i had an interview with romney riding around in a car in 2007 that was very much like that. we talked about abortion and at the end of the conversation he said i change made mind is that so hard to understand. he has been testy around this for whew awhile. people believe that the questions have been asked and answered. they feel that they put out what they need to do. they have not accepted the fact if you are going to run for president and get through the primaries and general elections you will be asked about this over and over and over again. he cannot keep continuing to show this testiness, especially
when if you look at his poll ratings he has been fairly consistent but he is down in all four early states, in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and florida. he has been trending downward. that is a big problem. >> chris: mara? >> what was the dynamic of the race up until recently that was he never changed. stayed stuck at 25 and that was going to be fine if the other candidates split the antiromney vote. now, things are changing and there does seem to be a bit of a shift and i do think he has to worry about that. on the other hand, there are proportional primaries in the republican fight. the guy who comes in connection has the money and organization to go the distance. i don't know if newt can develop that a at this late date. >> chris: kirsten, and we have less than a minute left, last time, more than half of the delegates were awarded by the end of february. this time you don't get even half of the the delegates awarded until the end of april.
this race almost necessarily unless everybody drops out has to go on. >> which works against gingrich because he dos haven't an operation at this time. >> chris: but if he is at this level he will get an operation. >> he is at this level today. a month ago cain was at this level. remains to be seen whether he will keep this level. he has to put together an organization very quickly. he doesn't really have anything to speak of right now, whereas romney does have an organization and a the money and experience to go the entire distance. >> and ding rich already missed a file and gingrich already missed a filing deadline. >> and he has done well in the debates but he has to fill that vacuum in terms of organization to get himself across the finish line here soon. >> chris: we have to take a break here. when we come back, have democrats turned the table on the gop when it comes to cutting taxes?
we need to get this done and i expect that it is going to get done before congress leaves. otherwise congress may not be leaving and we can all spend christmas here together. >> chris: president obama holding the christmas break over the heads of congressional republicans as he pushes them to pass his plan to extend the payroll tax cut and we are back now with a panel. we have seen an interesting role reversal in congress this week with democrats pushing for a tax cut for the middle class and a lot of republicans opposing it and demanding that it be paid for. ed, is the payroll tax cut the political winner the democrats think it is? >> i don't think it is, chris. the fact is most republicans do
support extending the payroll tax cut even though there is a legitimate question as to the impact it has in the job market. we haven't seen much boost from it. at the same time they are saying we ought to pay for it. we do have the deficits and it was interesting to see michelle obama make the comment about the social security trust fund. >> chris michele bachmann incidentally. i thought you said michelle obama. >> michele bachmann. >> interesting to say they support it. they support it now. the leadership supports it. there is a lot of fighting among the rank and file and the leadership initially did not support it. republicans were eceptionly saying this is an ineffective tax cut and something that they spend and now they have been moved on this i think because the democrats have been effective be on it. they have a simple message for once which they said look, you didn't think that the bush tax
cuts need to be paid for but now telling us we need to pay for the tax cut for the middle class. set it up as you are against the middle class and you are for coddling the rich and i think it has been an effective message and has them a little bit on the defense. >> chris: byron, you get to break the tie. >> the bottom line was you have republicans arguing against the extension of a tax cut and it made all of their other talk about tax cuts seem weird. now, you have them actually divided. there is this group i think it was 26 senators who voted against the whole thing. they opposed it for a variety of reasons. they don't really view it as a tax rate cut. they view it as a one year stimulus which they say won't work. the fact is that you you have a vote about extending a tax cut and republicans are divided on t. i think that is a big victory for democrats. >> mara, let me ask you as somebody who watches congress what ends up happening here? does congress end up extending the payroll tax cut and what happens to unemployment insurance benefits being
eastbound tended for the 10th time? >> i think both get extended, not expanded the way president obama wants but they do get extended and it is not that expense influence. like $110 billion for the payroll tax cut. >> chris: a lot of viewers are breaking out in hives as you say that. >> not that hard to find the money to pay for it. millionaires taxes will not be waived. they will find a way to pay for it. it won't be over ten years. it will be something more immediate and that will happen. i think this has been kind of remarkable. republicans didn't think tax cuts needed to be paid for and they paid for themselves. this is one of the rare times that democrats had the advantage in a tax debate. >> i don't see that great advantage. the problem is the long-term unemployment. and what the democrats are proposing, republicans saying we should do this because it is tough economic times and we should help workers with extra money in their pocket around the holidays but it is not a
progrowth policy and that is the biggest argument and i think you are seeing it play out on the floor of the house and senate. i said most republicans. i think most republicans are in favor of this but i think they are comfortable making the case this is not a growth policy. we have long-term employment problems and ought to be doing tax reform. >> what the democrats wanted to do is shift the debate to income inequality. that is what this has done. now, we are talking about the deficit and instead talking about income and equality and favoring rich people over poor people. i think it has been an extremely effective strategy. >> chris: you talked about long-term unemployment. on that front the president got some good news byron this week on friday but not all good news. the unemployment rate dropped from 9% to 8.6 in november and the economy created a net of 120,000 new jobs. but the big reason for the drop is the 315,000 people stopped looking for work. so, byron, is the glass half
full or is it half empty? >> it is good news for the white house. you can't say unemployment is 9% any more. it is 8.6% injuries the bad news is it has done this before. in november of last year the unemployment rate began dropping and went from 9.8% all the way down to 8.8%. by summer time it was back up to 9.2. the problem is at this time of year it does go down and if it goes back to something like over nine by next summer soon that close to the election it is going be terrible news. >> i was going to ask you, mara. as i say, 315,000 people dropped out of the work force and stopped looking for work and therefore they are not counted as unemployed. let's say the economy begins to pick up and they will start looking for are work so even if they are are creating more jobs you could see the unemployment not go down but go up.
>> president obama needs is two things. needs the employment to head in the right direction for him. the reason is dropping is that all these people have given up, they are not feeling that the economy is getting better. in a strange way president obama's fate is tied to angle and merckle right now. >> the chancellor. >> any time the white house can say the unemployment rate is now 9.8% is a good thing. >> chris: this is the lowest rate in two and a half years. the private sector has created jobs, private sector for 21 straight mondays. is that good enough for the president. is that enough for the president to be able to say well, we are moving in the right direction? >> no. for the reason we talked about. first of all, 50,000 of those jobs were retail jobs that are likely temporary for the holiday season. on top of that, for every two people who found a new job, five people left the work force
entirely which is part of a continuing pattern. in fact, if the labor force today were the same size it was when president obama took office the unemployment rate would be 11%. so shrinking the labor force is not the right way to bring down the unemployment rate and that is what we have been seeing and i think that a is going to as we talked about here, not going to be enough to help him next november. >> chris: kirsten? >> the short-term it is good for him but in the long-term what matters is what people are experiencing and how they feel about how the economy is doing but if they understand the underlying numbers or not, they do no how much money they have and whether they have a job. >> chris: and to the degree you can generalize how do you think people are feeling. >> i think people are feeling that the economy is not doing well. >> chris: check out panel plus where the group picks up with the discussion on our website foxnewssunday.com and we will post the video before noon, eastern time. up next, our power player of the week.
>> chris: with the vast majority of americans unhappy with the way washington works, a new group says the problem is how we choose our leaders. here is our power player of the week. >> we're definitely not a third party. we're democrats and republicans and independents coming together. >> for leo byrd he is ceo of
a.e., a nonprofit organization that has come up a new way to choose the next president. >> we have been in a focused way getting on the about ballot in all 50 states and reimagine the way we nominate a person. >> with contributions froryd hedge funders and a staff of 150. >> are you registered voter? >> chris: american elect has said it's gotten 2 million signatures to put a third political candidate. >> chris: what is wrong with the parties? >> the issues and ideas to take the country to a different place are obvious to the american people. they don't seem to be obvious in washington. >> we the people tell the government what to do. it doesn't tell us. >> chris: they will start an online process in which registered voters can sign up a
as delegates and choose a presidential candidate. in june the six finalists that must declare their willingness to run will pick a running mate from the other party, then an online convention will choose the ticket. >> we think a coalition ticket of a ticket of a democrat and republican is exactly what is needed to break the stranglehold in washington and to reimagine what it's going to take the united states to the next level. >> chris: nobody announce they'll run but starbucks ceo howard schultz and former secretary of state condoleezza rice. they won't support the nominees they will object their own and that has created a controversy. a.e. is social welfare organization which means this they don't have to disclose the donors. >> why not disclose? >> because people are actually in the real world, that is
possible. the reality and the democratic and republican parties, this is why challenging. >> chris: he worked for a liberal massachusetts governor. he please the a.e. cabinet can win. as for talk, they will act as spoilers to the other side, he says the system can't get more broken. >> thousands of people worked on the process and millions of people that support it, they have a way to really rethink the way we elected people. >> chris: they hope to also get candidates to the state and local level. check out americans elect.org. have a great week, and we'll see you next fox news sunday.